Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hello. Hello. Thank you for tuning in to this installment of the mortician's daughter. We're continuing our interview series with another very special guest.
Doctor Anissa Nadir has been a social worker for over 45 years. She is a pioneer in the field of muslim mental health and a co founder of the Islamic Social Services Association USA.
Doctor Nadir is also a retired Arizona State University social work professor. Her company, Doctor Anissa Nadir, an associate social justice institute, provides diversity training and programs for health, human services, education, business and law enforcement professionals.
She works to build bridges of understanding by providing presentations, workshops and interviews about Muslims, grief and end of life practices for hospice social workers and funeral home professionals.
Well, thank you for being on, by the way.
Really excited to have this conversation.
Can we begin with perhaps you introducing yourself?
[00:01:13] Speaker B: Yeah. So first of all, thank you for inviting me. My name is Anissa Nadir. I, I am a retired Arizona State University professor. I taught social work. I'm not a retired social worker because social work is in my veins.
It's about everything I do. So I won't say that I've retired from social work, but I've retired from teaching at the university and teaching on the graduate level and the higher education level. But it's something that I love and it's very much a part of who I am. I'm a native New Yorker, but I've been in Arizona now for about 42 years. Yeah. So, a long time. And I am a small business owner.
I work in lots of different arena, so I educate people about lots of different things, one being diversity, and I'm a bridge builder. And so I work in that capacity, but I also educate people about legal access and the importance of having that. And so I like to, I'm a prevention specialist, you know, so, but in the capacity of, I think this conversation, one of the areas that I really like working with is helping people to learn about end of life and end of life as it particularly relates to the islamic or the muslim community.
And so thank you for having me.
[00:02:50] Speaker A: To talk about that today for our listeners. You are a member of the muslim community here in Phoenix.
[00:02:56] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:02:56] Speaker A: So do you work with some of the organizations here?
[00:03:00] Speaker B: Yes. Yes. One of the big things of my life that I did not mention is that I serve as the president of the Islamic Social Services association, which is a nonprofit.
It's 25 years old this year, which I'm really excited about.
And it's an organization that was started really to address the social service and mental health needs of the community. So we provide social service and mental health education and advocacy, because there are lots of issues, and it's important to be culturally and spiritually sensitive. And at the time that this organization started, most people didn't know much about the Muslims, and the Muslims didn't know much about social services, services and mental health. So, you know, we came at a really good time 25 years ago, but there's still a great need because over the 25 years, we've recognized that, you know, when it comes to end of life, when it comes to healthcare, when it comes to mental health, when it comes to substance use and different disorders that most people are not familiar with, the muslim community, and the muslim community is not really aware of all the different resources that are available to them both, I guess I'll say, in the larger community.
So, yeah, so that's wonderful.
[00:04:23] Speaker A: That's very important work.
[00:04:25] Speaker B: Yeah. Thank you. Thank you.
[00:04:27] Speaker A: So on this show, we do focus a lot on end of life care or topics related to death and dying. And so we appreciate you coming to share your knowledge in that arena as well, because I know that practice is very dramatically, not just culturally, but also religiously.
As somebody who comes from a myriad of differing religious faiths in my family, I've definitely seen and taken part in a number of different types of funeral or end of life celebrations.
So there's a lot of steps.
Can we begin by discussing sort of what bodily care might look like at end of life?
[00:05:21] Speaker B: Yes.
So when.
And we've had a number of actual deaths in our community recently, and it always brings back, you know, what's kind of happening and that transition that's taking place. But, you know, one of the things that we attempt to do, if we can, before the person passes, is to spend time with them. You know, it's really a kind of a responsibility, members of the faith community, the muslim community, to be there, to spend time, to visit, to let them know that we're here and that we're here to support their transition.
Actually, we just had one of our elderly community members pass. She was in a care home, and I'm really glad that there were some of the members, some of the sisters in the community, the women in the community that went to visit her.
And I had seen her with another friend of ours just a couple of weeks before, and she looked like she was doing so well. But, you know, one of the beliefs that we had is that we don't know the time. Only God knows the time.
And so we are nothing.
We're not in charge of that. We don't know when. But we had the funeral home director at our mosque, our religious center, say that he had a conversation with her shortly before. And she said, I'm ready, you know, so people know, some people know when they're ready and some people really are pushing back, you know, from that time, you know, and that's really, that's really there.
Everybody has a different way of transitioning out. So care for the body.
I would say once someone passes away, then one of the things that we want to do, and also, I guess I'm going to say this also in the process is we want to remind, if we know that person was a practicing Muslim and that is, that was part of their life, that we want to remind them of that.
So we might say things like, remember who your lord is, remember, and we'll pray for them. And we'll say things like, we hope we're praying that there's a lot of light in your grave and that your grave is spacious and those kinds of things.
But the bodily care would be just to close the eyes and close the mouth if we can.
In our tradition, we have one of the funeral homes, local funeral homes, pick up the deceased and then take the deceased for washing.
And so we have, it's a responsibility of Muslims to wash and prepare the deceased. So we have a, one of the gentlemen that I told you that visited this recent sister that passed away, he's the funeral director. Brother Ahmed, at the Islamic Community center of Tempe, he's the funeral director. So many, many, many of the deceased members of our community are washed and prepared there. Not all, because there's another funeral home in Phoenix also that may also do some of the preparation. But for most of us, that's kind of where, if we pass away here, that's where we'll be washed and prepared. And so, you know, there's a kind of a ritual bath, if you will, that kind of takes place. So I've had the chance to participate in, you know, at first I was really nervous, like, you know, if you've never done it before and you've grown up with kind of different thoughts about death and dying, but it was really the most, I'm gonna say, serene and peaceful event, if I will. Yeah.
And just, you know, kind of the washing, so women wash the women, the men wash the men. So I've had the opportunity to wash a few of the women who passed away, women and girls who passed away.
And then, so the washing of the deceased and putting, there's rose water. So we gotta go out smelling good, too.
And so that was, but also just the sisters that I worked with to help wash the deceased sisters, they're so peaceful, you know, they're so calm. It's not, you know, I grew up in the christian tradition, and I never had a chance to prepare someone who passed away. But I just can imagine, and I have imagined, especially when it's been a very difficult transition, you know, a traumatic loss, that it's so difficult, you know, very tense and very harsh. But I'm blessed that the times that I've had to help prepare and wash a deceased, one of the deceased ladies, so sweet and so peaceful and so calming, you know, I love that.
[00:11:15] Speaker A: I'm a big proponent of when individuals are able to engage with the dead, basically, whether it's family, friends, members of the community, it's an opportunity to make death less frightening, and that seems to add more value to the days we're living.
[00:11:39] Speaker B: It really does. And I think it's also a good part of the grieving process.
You know, it helps you to have closure if you can. You know, so when a family member can be involved, like, I've been asked to help wash, like, one of our sisters, I think she passed last year. She asked that I would be one of the people that would prepare her, and that's, to me, such an honor.
And, you know, we had another bad loss, tragic loss, where a mom and a daughter and son were killed in a car accident. And I didn't know how that would go, even though it was a tragic loss. It was beautiful. You know, it was still very, very. The preparation was very lovely. So, you know, once the person is washed, then.
Then he or she is wrapped in a white kind of muslin cloth.
[00:12:47] Speaker A: You.
[00:12:47] Speaker B: Know, cotton kind of cloth.
[00:12:49] Speaker A: Like a shroud.
[00:12:50] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. But it's not. It's just. It's just material. And it's like, for the women, I think it's five pieces, and the men, it's three pieces.
And so, you know, so we're taught how to wrap, you know, the person.
And.
And women, they're also shrouded with the head covering, you know, and we don't. We're not buried in a coffin, if you will.
This is our coffin. You know, the shroud is our coffin.
We have a cemetery in the Phoenix area, Rahma, Rahma Rahma cemetery. And that's where many, many of the Muslims are interred and buried. It's beautiful. You know, it's just very simple. No big fancy headstones or anything. And I think everybody pretty much has the same marker.
And it's just very sweet and very, you know, so I have a lot of friends buried there, and quite frankly, that's where, when my time comes, I hope that I'm buried. Of course, we don't know where we're going to pass. So that's the other thing that's really important to know, is that our burial should take place within 24 to 48 or 72 hours. So I'll say 24 to 72 hours. We try to do it pretty quickly in 24 to 48, but it could go to 78 because we don't embalm, you know, and I recently had this conversation, even with my son, because he was going into surgery, and I was like, and he lives in Istanbul, Turkey. And I'm like, okay, so if something happens, what do you want? You know, if you want us to do the effort to come home, go ahead.
[00:14:39] Speaker A: That's great. I'm always trying to encourage people to have these conversations with their. With their families about what? And it so often you have that hesitation where they feel they're going to jinx it or put it, put some sort of bad energy on it if.
[00:14:59] Speaker B: They have that and cause the death.
[00:15:01] Speaker A: Right.
[00:15:01] Speaker B: Which, of course, I don't believe that we can do that when our time is time. It's time, you know? So we had this conversation because he was getting ready to have surgery, and he lives in Turkey, and I was like, do you want us to try to bring you back, or do you want to be buried there? And my heart of hearts would want him back, you know? But traditionally, you really should be buried within 24 to 48 hours without embalming in the place that's nearest to where you are.
So I had to rest with that. But thank God he came through the surgery fine, so we didn't have to deal with that this time. So I was really very grateful about that. But it was an important conversation to have. And you're right. It's a conversation that in the work that I do with wills and, you know, legal services and medical directives and powers of attorney and things like that, I really try to encourage people to have that conversation. Then you're alive and well and healthy, and everything's just fine. But of course, most people wait until they're getting ready to go in for surgery or there's a tragedy that's hopefully they depend on that. Yeah.
I mean, in my experience, it's like maybe 2% of people do, and it's really sad, and then it's too late, you know, and it's hard to talk about it then. So.
[00:16:35] Speaker A: So I. I have a couple. I'm gonna veer off my questions list. Cause you brought up some really interesting points.
First, to continue with what we're speaking on right now, you're at a very unique cross section between being part of this community here in Phoenix. Also your background in social work, also your background with helping people with legal matters.
I always want to make sure that people are not only having those conversations, but I know if perhaps somebody has grown up in one faith and transitioned to a different faith, their family is not necessarily going to be respectful of those end of life wishes that pertain to their religious practices at the time of death. So maybe that's something we could touch upon about, you know, having a poa or having a medical directive, having those things in place and how that can be beneficial.
[00:17:35] Speaker B: Yes, absolutely. Actually, I am a convert to my faith, so my husband, children, and I are the only Muslims in our family.
And, you know, we have loving family from the christian tradition, various denominations. But that's really important. You know, they know, I mean, I've been Muslim for, like, all of my adult life, and so they know that it's real and it's not a fad. And, you know, this is my life.
[00:18:03] Speaker A: I'm not going through a phase.
[00:18:04] Speaker B: Yeah, no, I'm not going through a phase, so. But they don't really know because, you know, we basically, we don't talk about it, you know, now, some of my brother and my brothers and my sister, I have had that conversation, but, like, my cousins and, you know, they don't really know what to expect.
So one of the things I think is important is to have those conversations with your family members of different traditions so that they're aware, because in, you know, growing up christian, I know about the wake, and it's being long and extended. I know I have many friends from the christian tradition, different denominations, who might even wait for the burial for a couple of weeks or two weeks or, you know, longer when we can't. And many family members will, like, rush to get to. They might not make it for my funeral. You know, if I'm buried in 24 to 48 hours, they might not make it. But there might be a memorial service later, you know, but. But that's another thing that they have to be aware of. But, yeah, one of the things that I really do encourage people who have converted to a different faith tradition is to really. And because whether you've converted to a different faith tradition or not, it's important to have your will documents in place. You're definitely your last will and testament, you know, because that's the document where you get to say who you want to have whatever stuff you have, even if it's, you know, just the smallest little trinket. It ups in sentimental value when you're no longer there. And then, of course, if you have minor children, you know, you definitely want, and you want to indicate if the other parent is not around, who's going to take care of them. Or you have fur babies, you know, or someone with a family member with a disability that you're responsible for. An elder parent, you know, these things are so important that you have documents in place to make sure that they are taken care of. The medical directive came so much to light during COVID when we realized people were passing away, and the do not resuscitate was not clear, like, do you want me to have them work and work and work and work, or do you want them to just let you go? And that's an important thing. There was this movie actor.
I can see his face.
I can't remember the name of the show right now, but I can see his face. But anyway, he was sick and he was estranged from his wife, and he didn't have these documents in place. And when the doctors asked, does she want to pull the plug? She said, yes, you know, let him go.
[00:21:00] Speaker A: I know, I walked back my laughter.
[00:21:02] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, but let him go, you know, and he didn't say, but, but way back when I was younger, there was this case of, um, uh, what's her name?
Terry Schiavo. And that case went up to the supreme Court and she fell ill and didn't have that document in place. And her parents and her husband battled all the way up to the supreme Court, to the supreme Court, eventually said the husband had the right to pull the plug. And family said, well, you never loved her anyway. You were just trying to, you know, let her go. So it cost a lot of money, a lot of suffering for the family members and, you know, and what were her wishes? She had the opportunity to say what her wishes were, but she didn't. She never did get to fill out the document that would say what she needed to do. And then the powers of attorney are important because, God forbid, what if you live? Maybe you're sick, but, you know, you're in the hospital and you can't pay your bills and you can't take care of, you know, some of the different things that you need to. You need somebody that has the power that you've given the power to take care of those things. So important. So, yeah. Yes.
[00:22:18] Speaker A: In my family, we have the tradition. You turn 18, you get your poa. It's just part and parcel. So even if listeners, you think you're too young and it's not a concern yet, if you are legally an adult, please take care of that.
[00:22:32] Speaker B: Absolutely. Absolutely.
[00:22:35] Speaker A: It's so very important, not just for the individual, but for their loved ones.
[00:22:38] Speaker B: Yes, yes.
[00:22:40] Speaker A: Even if you hate your loved ones, you don't want them to make your decisions.
[00:22:44] Speaker B: Especially if you hate your loved ones, you don't want them to make your decisions.
[00:22:49] Speaker A: And another thing that I noticed that I think is just wonderful is right now the funeral industry is trying to reconcile itself with the green movement.
How are we going to, as an industry, move in a more environmentally responsible way and with the practices you're describing, that is green burial at its most.
I need an app at its most. At its most.
[00:23:20] Speaker B: There you go.
[00:23:22] Speaker A: I think that's really. Is there an element of environmental stewardship?
[00:23:28] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:23:29] Speaker A: Within.
[00:23:29] Speaker B: There is.
I don't know if we've focused enough on it yet in terms of the barrel process, because we are using space, but we not being involved, we're going back to the earth. You know, bodies will decompose, you know, so in that regard.
But burials do take up space. You know, it takes up land space. So I don't know where we are. So that's something that I will, you know, especially since you mentioned it, I'm gonna, you know, ask about what are we doing about that? But, you know, we don't have, like, the caskets that may not decompose. We're not buried in that. So it's the body and it's this cotton that, you know, that's going to decompose. And so I think that that's a great contribution, but I think more than more can be done.
[00:24:22] Speaker A: You know, the unembalmed shrouding of a body and then being placed in the earth is a very natural green process.
So I think it's already in a good place. It's already in a good place.
So going more to some of the rituals or ceremonies that surround sort of the death practices in Islam, are there a specific set of prayers or customs that you might participate in?
[00:25:02] Speaker B: So one of the things that we say when someone passes away, I'm going to say it in English, is, from God we come, to God we return.
So we have a very strong belief that God brought us here, allowed us to be born into this world, and at some point, he's going to call us back. We don't know when that point is going to be.
There's a verse or a phrase in the Quran which is our holy book that says every soul shall taste death and no one knows what land they're going to die in. So that's, you know, so that's, that's very much a part of our belief system, the burial, or there's the funeral practices.
As I said, 24 to 48, maybe 72 hours would be here in here in this area. The islamic community center of Tempe is a place where that's happened, where the funeral services take place often. And they're very simple, you know, especially, and as I said, I was raised christian and they're not elaborate, there's not a lot of singing, but very simple prayers, very short, very brief. And, you know, when I compared it, I thought, oh my gosh, I don't want my christian friends and my family to think that that person wasn't cared for. Actually, that is a way of showing how much we care by rushing them to their burial, you know, by holding them. And we, that's our vision is, you know, by, by delaying. That's like, it's not good for them, you know, because they're anxious now to take their burial site and to take their resting place.
[00:26:58] Speaker A: You know, that's a very important mission to us here at our company, which I'm not going to talk about, but having that, you know, timely placement really does allow people to focus on their grieving process, healing in that and I, and moving forward.
[00:27:17] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:27:17] Speaker A: You know, and so timeliness is a crucial component oftentimes.
[00:27:23] Speaker B: Yeah. So at the, so when we do have a funeral service, we oftentimes there you'll find that there'll be kind of around 01:00 it's just a good time of the day and we, people tend to come for the, the, her prayer, the kind of the midday prayer and gather for the prayer and then, and say a few words about the deceased and then after, or have a prayer just for the, for the mercy and blessings of the deceased. And then after that we go down to the courtyard area of the islamic center and then we do the actual official, we call it Genaza or funeral service. And again, it's a brief service, but doesn't take long at all.
But it's very, how do I want to say it's peaceful? Again, I don't know if I can think of any other terms. It's simple, it's peaceful, it's easy. And when I say it's easy.
It's not. I mean, the person who's that who is closest to the deceased, I'm sure that's difficult. It doesn't matter. You know, grief is not easy.
Grief is difficult. Yeah. But, you know, having, especially when so many people gather, because it's our responsibility as Muslims, when we hear that someone's deceased, we need to go to be there to pray for them, because in our, and many of us are saying, because I want somebody to be there to pray for me when my time comes. So, and then also, of course, then that opportunity for us to greet and console and give condolences to the family members and friends and so forth. And then after that, then people go to the burial grounds, and then there's a brief prayer at the burial grounds after the deceased is interredd.
But one of the things I also see happening there, and I noticed I did this the last time I was there, is we went around looking for our friends who passed to say a prayer and just to say a brief prayer to the, to, you know, for Uncle Azam and sister Hanifa, and I'm just, these are the names of friends that have passed away. So, and that's what people do, you know, they go, they give their, you know, the prayer for the person who's being interred, and then they go give greetings to the ones who have passed away.
[00:30:03] Speaker A: That's great. Having a shared memorial space is also something I think is very important for communities. I know there are 29 million Americans with cremated remains in their home, and you sort of lose not only the sanctity of death, but also that community participation. And so I think, I think that's wonderful.
[00:30:28] Speaker B: I should also say that while we have the Rahmah cemetery and many of the Muslims are interred there, there's also, I think, Greenwood Cemetery, where there's a section in which Muslims are also interred. So they have people of different faith traditions, and there's a section in which Muslims are interred, I think it's called, called Greenwood mortuary and cemetery. So in Phoenix. So that's another location.
[00:30:55] Speaker A: Yeah. I do know a number of, you know, cemeteries, memorial gardens, people within the industry are trying to become more inclusive in their practices so they can, you know, address the needs of everybody in their community, certainly in a respectful way.
[00:31:13] Speaker B: And you mentioned cremation. So it's not our tradition to cremate. Not to say that some people wouldn't be, but, you know, most of us in the islamic tradition, we don't cremate.
[00:31:26] Speaker A: To my understanding, it's only during times of pandemics or epidemics, something where.
But beyond that, same with Judaism, orthodox Judaism. There's no cremation unless it is a time of pandemic.
[00:31:41] Speaker B: And I haven't even heard that. But that's something that makes sense to me.
[00:31:45] Speaker A: Well, now I'm going to have to find out for sure before we air this episode.
[00:31:48] Speaker B: Yeah, I'll have to check on that too. Yeah.
[00:31:50] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:31:50] Speaker B: Yeah, I haven't heard that, but I think it does make sense. I know. I mean, there was a lot of concern during the COVID you know, because so many people were dying in so many different parts. So I'll have to check and see what was done in that particular case.
But, you know, part of it is because our belief in heaven and hell.
[00:32:12] Speaker A: And, you know, perhaps you can correct my pronoun. Is it Jannah and Jahannam?
[00:32:22] Speaker B: Oh, Jenna. Jenna is paradise is heaven. Jenna and Jehanam is hell. Jannah and Jehannam. Yeah. Yeah, that's it. Yeah. Yeah. Heaven and hell.
[00:32:36] Speaker A: And so there is that concept within the faith that you would be, you know, returning to God in one, or perhaps you. You didn't do right.
[00:32:47] Speaker B: Yeah. So, yeah, you want to. You want to do your, you know, that's part of our responsibility here on earth is one to be, you know, vice geraniums and to be stewards in the land and in the world and to care for, you know, people and. And the creation and create the animals and so forth, to do good deeds and to have those good deeds go on our scale of good deeds so that, you know, with God's grace, we could get to Jenna or heaven. Of course, those people who are corrupt and evil and treat people badly, they're risking. They're risking Jenna and, you know, well, one more time. But it's not my judge. I'm not the judge, but I would not, I would say, off the air.
[00:33:37] Speaker A: We should make a list of who we think it looks like.
[00:33:40] Speaker B: That's not going to be appropriate.
[00:33:42] Speaker A: I'll take it off the table.
So are there.
You had mentioned that if the person who passed as a woman, then sisters or women will care for the body, are there any other gender specific practices as they pertain to the funeral? Or is it just in the body preparation?
[00:34:03] Speaker B: Just really in the preparation of the deceased? Yeah, yeah. And shrouding and such. Yeah. I can't think of anything else.
Now, there is. You know, in terms of the funeral, in some cultures, it's not as much a.
It's not specific to Islam, but more specific to different cultural traditions within Islam, you know, certain cultures don't prefer for women to go to the gravesite. And part of it is because they know that women tend to be more emotional. And one of the things that we know is that the deceased feels the pain of their loved ones. And so we're trying to prevent that. And so, and if someone is really, like, very emotional, and sometimes we even use the term wailing, you know, really crying a lot and profusely, that's extra pain. And so there's a discouragement around that, but it's not. Women are not prohibited. Women can go to the gravesite, you know, but it is important for us to recognize that the deceased does feel the pain of their loved ones.
So, yeah, we do want to kind of keep that in mind as well.
[00:35:25] Speaker A: Well, yeah, that's definitely something I haven't heard before, but I think that's lovely. Now, if it was my household, however, the wailing would come from the other side of the gender line, so he would have to stay home, my husband.
But, yeah, that is very interesting with having that idea that the deceased is taking on the emotions of those around them, you know, experiencing it. That's very.
It's quite lovely, actually, the presentness of it.
Is there a specified time for mourning.
[00:36:06] Speaker B: Or a period of mourning?
[00:36:08] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:36:10] Speaker B: So for a woman whose husband has passed that time, kind of designated about four months and ten days for the morning period where she kind of has, you know, the time, you know, she doesn't need to go out as much unless she works and she's making a living for herself, but she has that opportunity just kind of, you know, people come over and visit or. But, you know, have a kind of an easy, you know, time to just. It's. It's a difficult time, you know.
[00:36:45] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:36:45] Speaker B: So, so that's that period. But otherwise, there's not, I think it's gonna be. I don't think there's anything specific to Islam, but I think different cultures may handle it a little bit differently.
[00:37:02] Speaker A: Yeah, I know. I've talked about this on the show before about how you might have a set, you know, group that practices one religion by name, but that can vary location to location, community to community. And I hope that most of our listeners are aware that there are a myriad of traditions within Islam, and it's not just one set faith. There are different practitioners with variation in those practices.
[00:37:35] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. It's the foundation of Islam, and the essence of the islamic traditions are, you know, kind of this foundation, but you know, different cultures, where different countries are from and how people studied Islam and maybe even schools of thought, they may practice some aspects of the tradition a little bit differently. But there is that, you know, kind of foundational principles of Islam.
[00:38:05] Speaker A: So in the, in the shrouding process, is the body covered entirely.
[00:38:10] Speaker B: But when that. When the body is interred. Yes.
Before the body. Before, actually, the prayer service, the face can be open, and especially for close family members to come and pay their respects.
But when we're actually interred, then the whole body is. Yeah. Shrouded. Yeah.
[00:38:43] Speaker A: Is there any question that I didn't ask that you would like me to sort of bring to the table something I might have overlooked?
[00:38:54] Speaker B: You're very thorough, really.
We try. Very thorough. I think maybe how we may handle things. How does the community help and support post funeral? You know, I think that that might be so. Recently, we had, this was really sad. We had two young men pass away.
One was traveling and overseas. He'd taken his grandma, dropped his grandma off in Pakistan, and then he went on for a vacation, kind of a post graduation vacation, and he passed away in his sleep in the hotel. They said it might have been gas, you know, gas fumes from the heater.
And then another one, the 17 year old, was killed in a car accident. So. And these are both close friends of ours. My daughter grew up with the mothers, and so we know these families. And one of the things I got to see is how very quickly, one, when we heard people rush to the household to be there to, you know, give comfort and to pray with them and to, you know, just to bring food into and then post, you know, funeral. Well, one, the mother whose son who passed away, he wound up being buried overseas because he was overseas, and it was going to be his wishes and the better way to do it than to try to bring him back. So they went to spend time there. But when they came back, we went to visit.
People have been trying to call and check on them and see how they're doing. And then the other mother is getting ready to come back. She went overseas after his funeral. But before, you know, the mosques was full, like the mosque in Tempe, the islamic center. We used every space. Every space was used like somebody was standing in a space for the prayers. You know, it was like the fullest, the biggest funeral service we've had. And he was soccer, a 17 year old soccer player, so he was on a soccer team, and his soccer teammates and people who knew him from that world who were not Muslim, came. And then, of course, the muslim members of the community who knew him since he was growing up as a child.
But the family received lots of love and attention, and we're waiting for them to come back now so that they're starting a meal train and just things like that.
[00:41:45] Speaker A: That's amazing. I feel a lot of us in this country don't have that sense of community or those people who will sort of gather together at a time of loss to support the living people who stay behind.
So I think that's just beautiful.
And it's definitely a practice that used to be more in place, but unfortunately has been sort of fading.
We'll hopefully be reviving it, though, but I'm glad to hear that.
[00:42:24] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:42:27] Speaker A: It's just such an important element of moving through grief.
[00:42:31] Speaker B: It is, it is. And I'm very grateful that, you know, we do have a close knit community. Unfortunately, not everybody is close. You know, like people have come from other parts of the country or the world. They're new here. They may not have made the connections yet.
You may meet someone in a maybe hospital setting, maybe they had a tragic accident, they got very sick, and they're not connected to the community. So I would say that it would be important to identify some key contacts. Certainly I could be a contact that I could connect, but the islamic community center of Tempe or tempimosque.com is a good way to connect. If you know someone who is a Muslim who doesn't have community and they're at the end of life or, you know, they're very close and they need some, and their family members need support or they're here alone. I mean, sometimes you travel and come for a conference and you wind up being here alone and you know what happens. So we do want, you want people to know that that is a resource that can be accessed.
[00:43:52] Speaker A: Excellent. We'll make sure to include that information as well. But Doctor Nadir, I can't even begin to thank you enough for coming out to speak to me today about this.
I know it's certainly of interest to me, as I'm sure it is many others who are listening.
[00:44:10] Speaker B: May I say one more, please? I do want to say also that as we talked about the will preparation and, you know, end of life documents, that I can also be a resource for that as well. If I can help people, you know, access, you know, legal services or, you know, get connected, to be able to have those resources before, before we get close to the end of life, I'd love to be able to do that as well.
[00:44:39] Speaker A: Well, if it's okay with you, we'll put some professional contact information out with this website so that people with this podcast, so that people in the area know how to get in touch with you if they're looking for those connections within the muslim community or even just assistance with preparing those poas and other documents that folks just need for end of life for.
[00:45:06] Speaker B: Yes, yes, yes. And I can help here in Phoenix as well as around the country. I'm well connected around the country. So if you listen to this and you're in other parts of the country, us, even Canada, I'm happy to be a resource as well.
[00:45:20] Speaker A: Wonderful. It's exceedingly kind. Well, once again, thank you so much for taking time to speak with us today. It's been a lovely conversation. I know I've learned a lot.
So thank you again for being here.
[00:45:32] Speaker B: Thank you for having me. This has been a pleasure.
